Hey Orlove, how many of these are not supercars?

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/03/2013 at 13:17 • Filed to: None

I'm guessing "a lot".

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/fe…

DISCUSSION (42)

Raphael Orlove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/03/2013 at 13:22

oh jeez

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:23

how does anyone justify the 507 on this list?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:23

THE DINO?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:23

the old bentley continental?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:24

a dual-cowl phaeton?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:24

THE E-TYPE?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:24

for the last time, the F12 is not a supercar

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:25

the 3500 GT? At least pick a Zagato. I mean, come on.

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:26

the ghibli is a grand tourer

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/03/2013 at 13:26

I understand calling out and giving some props to the epic cars of the time, but the 1912 Stutz shouldn't be on the list of greatest super cars of all time. If a 4 cylinder crap early 90's geo metro could run it down it has no business on the list.

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:26

THE 550?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:26

BMW Z8 wat are u doing

Z_Stig > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:27

Also, the Z8?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:27

skylines? no no no no no

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:27

Ha! I knew you'd have a field day with this.

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:27

vanquish? no no no no no

ddavidn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/03/2013 at 13:27

Bahahahahaha

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:28

every time someone says 'jewel' when describing a 2000 GT, I cry. Also, it's a sports car

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:28

what is a Ferrari Le Mans car doing on here?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:29

or the ZR1?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:29

911 turbo is not a supercar. that's the whole point of the 911 turbo

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:29

THE SILVER GHOST?

Raphael Orlove > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:30

get the daytona off of this list

Crocket Bernet > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:40

I would recomend every one of these posts but on mobile that could mean I'd be here all day.

YSI-what can brown do for you > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/03/2013 at 13:47

I might disagree with most of that article but I am just happy that the Murcielago made top 30!!!

ncasolowork2 > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 13:53

Ironically everything you listed I agree with. It isn't a supercar. Then again there's maybe 3 cars on that list you might actually call a supercar.

Cloud81918 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/03/2013 at 14:21

I think people get to crazy about where the supercar line is drawn. But I'd have to say the following are not, in my book, supercars. I think it is easier to define by saying what isn't one.

2003 Bentley Continental GT: It don't believe you can transcend from luxury car roots and become a supercar. I think this is certainly true today, perhaps a bit less true in the past. I don't think an M3 is a supercar, it is a 3 series that has been improved to the point of challenging many supercars. But the under pinnings are still and 3 series. That is what I think here as well . The Bentley is a great coupe, but not a supercar.

2011 Ariel Atom 500: Love it, but supercars have some luxury involved. This is a racecar. Nothing is for comfort. Pulling up to a fancy restaurant in a car like this would be silly. While car geeks would be excited, many would find it unrefined.

Some of the other entries are cars that I wouldn't called supercars, but I wouldn't call someone out for referring to them as supercars. I tend to think a supercar is designed from the begining for performance and reasonable luxury. It must be visually appealing and evokes some sort of reaction from its design. Speed is important and it must be high performance for its time when compared to more common cars. The use of hightech components and/or cutting edge design for its time period is what separates the sports car from the supercar.

Time period is a huge thing when discussing something being a supercar. I have a Lotus Esprit Turbo. When made not many would argue against its supercar-ness. They made less then 260 of them. The interior it covered in leather. The body and engine used novel design and materials. But when you take this supercar from 1989 to today, it can be matched by a WRX in more most measurements. So is it now not a supercar? Does it get demoted to sportscar? What about a Muira? Like I said time period is really important. You must always look at a car at its time of production.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Cloud81918
09/03/2013 at 14:27

Disagree on the luxury points you made. If the F40 wasn't a supercar, nothing is.

Cloud81918 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/03/2013 at 15:04

I never said that they have to be luxury cars. I said reasonable luxury. Don't read that to mean decked out, read it to mean not cheap and shoddy. A supercar can't have some crappy Summit plastic dune buggy seats. The bits you interface with should be reasonable to premium. There has to be a concerted effort to make things nice. It has to be a special place to be.

That said I think the F40 is scary close to dropping off the cliff and being a track toy made by a supercar company. It's saving grace is it is meant to be a streetcar. It was just so cutting edge at its time and it was just this side of track toy to sell. If not for its beautiful lines it would be seen little different from the Arial Atom. If you drove up to a fancy restaurant in an F40 people wouldn't question if you did it for a laugh.

I think it is also worth discussing that many F40 buyers optioned for a lot of the stuff that wasn't part of the F40 mentality. For instance I have seen a grand total of 2 F40s with my own eyes both had carpet. One had electric windows.

Cloud81918 > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
09/03/2013 at 15:08

Time of development is a big issue with Supercars. You can't expect a car form back then to be outstanding now.

It would be like saying. "The WW2 Mustang was a piece of crap because they can't even do Mach 2. Hell even a 707 would leave that junker in the dust."

Yet, if you were going to start listing the 100 greatest fighter planes ever guess what would probably make it on that list.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Cloud81918
09/03/2013 at 15:25

I understand what you're getting at. But I just don't see that car as a top 100 supercar. I just think if you're making that list it should still be a fast car. The Miura is still a damn fast/thrilling car.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Cloud81918
09/03/2013 at 15:26

Carpet + electric windows luxury

The thing that makes a supercar super is its performance. Everything else is secondary. However, when cars are being sold for the prices most supercars demand, makers know they'd better make an effort to make it, at the very least, "nice".

Cloud81918 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/03/2013 at 15:39

I'm not saying that carpet and electric windows are necessarily luxury items, I'm saying not all buyers liked the striped out F40. Many have installed the "missing" components.

Like I said it walks the line. Its saving grace from being a track day toy is its looks and the nice things it does have. If it looked like a Ford LTD and had crap parts in the interior you wouldn't have the hard on for it that you have. People don't stand in line at the circus hoping to lock lips with the bearded lady because they've heard she is the worlds best kisser.

A supercar that doesn't turn heads and feel like a special place to sit, isn't a supercar.

Cloud81918 > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
09/03/2013 at 15:41

I bet booking it in a 1912 Stutz is probably just as trilling. Sure it may lose to a Geo Metro, but it would be pretty exciting on the Stutz end as probably everything is similarly bad. Yet, it was one of the best in its day and that's what counts.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Cloud81918
09/03/2013 at 15:49

I'd prefer it to look stunning and have a wonderfully designed cabin, but I can't agree that these two attributes are necessary additions for the definition.

Note the green glue:

Kinja'd!!!

mr. idk > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 16:09

i think the zr1 qualifies because it is arguably the most "super" american car ever built since it is a $100k corvette, and because it killed every single car under $300k (that includes you 458 and GTR)

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Cloud81918
09/03/2013 at 16:10

Is it a list of the best and fastest cars ever built or is it a list of best super cars in their time. If it's the second option I agree 100%.

It just implied to me they were going to give me a top 100 batshit crazy fast cars ever built. Calculated based off top speed vs acceleration.

I do find it funny that you said they would probably both do everything similarly badly. haha.

Cloud81918 > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
09/03/2013 at 16:20

Ah I see what you mean. Yeah I think this is the second. The best supercars, each judge in their time. Certainly a 1912 Stutz doesn't hold a candle to a C4 ZR1, let alone a Henneessey Venom.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Cloud81918
09/03/2013 at 16:30

OK, now I think we're on the same page.

side note: I LOVE the C4 ZR1

NoahthePorscheGuy > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 17:45

The Fact the Porsche Carrera GT is Number 90 and the ZR1 is 31 makes me want to strangle someone. What bullshit half assed article is this? Not to mention that how the hell can you rate the P1, 918, and La Ferrari 15-13 if nobodies even driven them yet? GASHGFGHSRHTRHBSRHGG RAGE. Plus where is the SSC Ultimate Aero, The Grumpert Apollo, etc etc. Fuck you Edmunds.

NoahthePorscheGuy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/03/2013 at 17:46

Not a single Spyker either...

NoahthePorscheGuy > Raphael Orlove
09/03/2013 at 17:48

The CLK-GTR was 95? Seriously? No GT1 Strassenversion... Idiots.